Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

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bieramar
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Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » September 27th, 2017, 5:14 pm

ESTATE TAXES

In 2014 2,626,418 people died in the United States.

4,918 Estates - 0.187% - paid the so-called federal "Death Tax" (filed in 2015).

Average Estate worth was $17,943,777.

Sources: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/15es01fy.xls and Census Bureau.



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mike
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by mike » September 27th, 2017, 7:34 pm

Doesn't the estate have to be pretty large for there to be any tax at all?

I don't think I'll have to worry about it unless it includes estates worth about $253.00 and some stamps.

Hell, I don't have to worry about it at all, it's one of those "after I'm dead" problems that I've heard Ed Asner talking about.




bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » September 27th, 2017, 11:58 pm

In 2014 the filing threshold was $5,340,000. 11,917 Estates filed; 6,999 didn't pay any tax, 4,918 paid, as noted in my initial post (same Source link).



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plazabum
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by plazabum » September 28th, 2017, 12:10 am

Mike wouldn't have $5.3 million if I loaned him $5 million. And, I might be a bum to you, but I've got $5 million invested in empty Boone's Farm bottles.



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Coebul
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by Coebul » September 28th, 2017, 10:43 am

Most large estates are protected with tax shelters. Trusts, foundations, charitable trust life estates and many more. I am against any estate tax.
Large ranches and farms are a prime example. When older members of the family pass the heirs are forced to sell assets to satisfy tax obligations.

Was working with a family to list and sell a 500 acre of managed old growth timber worth millions. Because of Capital gain laws they couldn't log or sell the property and they were worried about how much the STATE would take when the Grand parents passed.



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mike
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by mike » September 29th, 2017, 1:19 am

plazabum wrote:
September 28th, 2017, 12:10 am
I've got $5 million invested in empty Boone's Farm bottles.
Good to know ... the next time someone asks me to pay them in empty Boone's Farm bottles, I'll try to remember that.



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RichWhitey
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by RichWhitey » September 29th, 2017, 12:34 pm

mike wrote:
September 29th, 2017, 1:19 am
Good to know ... the next time someone asks me to pay them in empty Boone's Farm bottles, I'll try to remember that.
Jealous..



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 8th, 2017, 11:29 pm

I'm against the death tax.

Why bother trying to make a better life for your family if the IRS is just going to take most of it away so elected officials can blow it on buying votes with toys and candy.



bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » October 9th, 2017, 6:37 pm

The threshold before an estate files is $5,340,000 - and 0.187% of the estates filed in 2014 paid estate tax.

Anyone who has accumulated $5.3 million in one lifetime had done so because of the U.S. infrastructure, and the safety and security provided by millions of other taxpayers in their lifetime.

To begrudge paying a pittance on the estate above $5.3 million is consummate greed, and illustrates a profound ignorance of the U.S. government, created by all the people.



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 9th, 2017, 8:42 pm

$2.5 million in estate taxes qualifies as a smidge more than a pittance



bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » October 10th, 2017, 11:23 am

What was the total amount of the estate?



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 10th, 2017, 6:16 pm

I didn't exactly get out a calculator, but I was guesstimating something along the lines of...

10 million-ish minus the first 5.3 million-ish (exempt) multiplied by the 40-ish% taxes.



bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » October 10th, 2017, 9:39 pm

OK, not a pittance; but more than fair - as I addressed previously - and the estate accumulated during relatively low income tax periods, at the expense of other taxpayers.

IRS top income rates, historically:
1917 67%
1918 77%
1922 58%
1925 25%
1932 63%
1936 79%
1940 81%
1942 88%
1944 94%
1946 86%
1952 92%
1964 77%
1965 70%
1968 75%
1969 77%
1971 70%
1982 50%
1983 38.5%
1988 28%
1993 39.6%
2003 35%
2013 39.6%



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 11th, 2017, 6:24 am

Phooey!

You have no idea how any given estate was acquired and you have no idea if it was or wasn't at the expense of someone else.



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Coebul
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by Coebul » October 11th, 2017, 12:06 pm

bieramar wrote:
October 10th, 2017, 9:39 pm
OK, not a pittance; but more than fair - as I addressed previously - and the estate accumulated during relatively low income tax periods, at the expense of other taxpayers.

IRS top income rates, historically:
1917 67%
SNIP
2013 39.6%
More than fair? Spoken like someone not in that tax bracket. It seems easy for those that are not part of the issue to demand more from those that are.. To each according to need from each according to ability..



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 11th, 2017, 2:41 pm

I'm always going to reject the premise that if someone in America makes a lot of money, it had to be the expense of someone else.

A great example would be a guy who worked hard and lived beneath his means during the Carter years, whilst paying exorbitant income taxes (and exorbitant mortgage interest rates...but I digress.)

Suppose he invested some of his after tax income on on a little bungalow at St. Augustine beach. He paid $40,000 for it. He maintained the property and paid property taxes and insurance on it for 40 years. And he paid income taxes on the rental income. It now has a market value of $400,000.

And suppose over that 40-year period, this smart guy kept buying little beach properties each time he had a little extra after-tax income. It's really easy to imagine how this guy could have amassed an estate valued in the millions... without screwing anyone over.



bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » October 14th, 2017, 7:57 pm

The issue is not screwing others over - that has zilch to do with the equitable sharing of the cost of funding the infrastructure across America that makes those beach properties income-producing over time.

Beach replenishment, subsidized flood insurance, mortgage payments writeoffs of income, the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, Border Patrol, potable water, affordable power, highways, bridges, and on and on.

Those services and equipment are what makes the United States a fertile ground for entrepeneurs, investors, laborers, stockholders, owners - and those dependent on them; children, elderly, infirm, impaired, disabled, underpaid.

Note that everyone prospered, and the so-called American Dream was came within reach of all in the years when the rich - whose riches were only possible because of the security and infrastructure provided by the dedicated public servants - paid their fair share.



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 14th, 2017, 8:19 pm

bieramar wrote:
October 14th, 2017, 7:57 pm
The issue is not screwing others over...
According to you, it IS:

"OK, not a pittance; but more than fair - as I addressed previously - and the estate accumulated during relatively low income tax periods, at the expense of other taxpayers."

(emphasis added by moi)



bieramar
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by bieramar » October 14th, 2017, 9:16 pm

Not at all.

Screwing someone over means an intentional action to cheat someone.

When one person is taxed lower (percent of wealth) and another is taxed higher, the lower taxed person is not intentionally cheating the other. (S)he is simply benefiting at the other's expense.



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auntmartymoo
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Re: Proposed Tax Reform - Estate "Death" Tax

Post by auntmartymoo » October 14th, 2017, 9:51 pm

Ummmm... huh?

The guy with the big estate pays a ton of taxes. And not at anyone's expense.



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